Cipro damage to tendons, doctor said was making too big a deal out of it

by Marat S.
(Pacifica, CA (& Russia))

I am 36, male, took cipro for 8 days, 1x500mg a day for prostate infection. I was aware of the side effects and reduced a dosage to 1X500mg instead of 2!


Thanks God, that I have my own head and didn't listen to the Kaiser's doctors!

Horrible health provider BTW, I figured out that it's either you have a good doctor/provider or not have a doctor at all!

I started to notice pain in knees and tendons behind them after 4th pill. It was brief, like for 1/2 hour. I kept taking it. Pains were coming and disappearing.

After 6th tablet I told that to the doctor and he told me that I am worried about it too much and making a big deal out of it. I kept taking them.

After 8th tablet pains become more persistent and I stopped. In a week after that pains become severe. I asked doctor - what should I do? First, he didn't believe me. He told me that he gave it to 100s of people and nobody complained... Then, he said that there is no specific treatment...

My mistake was that I believed that the pains would disappear within a week after treatment. And doctor was supposed to tell me immediately to stop.

So I was able to do only limited walking for a month, due to knee pains and stiff tendons. After a month pains gradually disappeared. I got happy, I started to hike, etc.

But after a 10 days ago, about 2.5 month after stopping taking cipro the pains returned after I did rollerblading. The good part that pain is not that horrible like it was before. So far...

Now I took it seriously. Seems like they didn't get fully healed. I am following your recommendations - with bone broth,
magnesium, Vit B6, CoQ10, joint supplements, protein supplements.

I also bought today cow tendons, chopped them and ate them raw.

Seems like they have to heal again. They heal, but again, very very slowly.

There was interesting research here before the link died. http://gateway.nlm.nih.gov/MeetingAbstracts/ma?f=102244628.html


It said relative concentrations of other proteins in tendons from ciprofloxacin-treated dogs decreased by 73% (elastin), 88% (fibronectin), and 96% (Beta1-integrin) when compared to control samples (data from low-dose group only). A very similar pattern of protein alterations was detected in magnesium-deficient samples.

In conclusion, rather low doses of a fluoroquinolone or a dietarily-induced magnesium deficiency induce identical biochemical alterations in canine tendons. These findings further support the hypothesis that quinolone-induced toxic effects on connective tissue structures are due to the magnesium-antagonistic effects of these antibacterial agents.

This is why I've bought the cow tendons. Elastin, fibronectin, and Beta1-integrin - I can't find them anywere as a supplement.



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Joshua Answers:

Hi Marat. Thanks for that great information!

I bet that tendon is chewey....

That's why I like the Bone Broth method, because you can stew all those nutrients out and eat/drink it down. You could throw them tendons in there too. Tendons are a common menu option that goes into Pho (viet namese soup).

Darn it, now I'm going to have to find and eat some tendon.....

The bad news is, generally by the time a doctor says 'stop', it's too late. Still, who knows what two days less dosage would have done for you?

Sorry to hear about the pain and such. I'm not much into lawsuits, but I'm all for them in the case of fluoroquinolones. Nothing else will have doctors/pharmaceutical compaines switch to something else.

And I VERY much appreciate your motivation and determination to find a solution.




Joshua Tucker, B.A., C.M.T.
The Tendonitis Expert
www.TendonitisExpert.com



Comments for Cipro damage to tendons, doctor said was making too big a deal out of it

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Jan 05, 2010
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starstarstarstarstar 		PART 2 - Thank you! - Cipro damage to tendons, doctor said was making too big a deal out of it
by: Marat S.

Thank you, Joshua.

I think just making a broth from tendons might not help at full potential, because these 3 mostly damaged proteins - elastin, fibronectin, and Beta1-integrin might not get out into the broth. Also we don't know if they are getting destroyed by boiling.

I decided to by a meat grinder. I am going either boil the cow tendons and go through meat grinder or take them raw into meat grinder and splash a boiling water over them to disinfect.

Thank you for Pho soup. I will defiantly try it!
Also thank you for this web site. Doctors don't care about us...



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Joshua Comments:

I don't know that doctors don't care....I think it's more a function that their entire education/paradigm is built around symptoms, and not health.

So they are treating isolated symptoms. But the body doesn't work that way. The parts of the whole works together as a single entity.

And how dare you not respond to a pharmaceutical drug like the doctor thinks you should!

Anyway.

Splashing hot water on tendons won't disinfect them....

You can still eat them once the've been in the soup.

Some thing might die in a long term simmer of the tendons in water, enzymes for instance. But I think the three proteins you mention will do just fine. They're soluble, meaning they melt apart, and then reform, basically.

Possibly breaking them down some will help your body uptake more of them, but I don't actually know that.

I don't really care how you do it. You're on the right track, and I'm curious to hear what you do and the short/long term results of it.



Jan 18, 2010
Rating
starstarstarstarstar 		fluoride poisoning is the key factor
by: Marat S

Interesting article:


Earthclinic.com fluroide Q&A

..the biggest threat of developing the most severe forms of chronic fluoride poisoning may actually stem from fluoride-based prescription drugs, such as fluorinated antibiotics like Cipro.


See:

14). Are there any vitamins, or supplements, that are known to improve the symptoms of chronic fluoride poisoning?



Joshua Comments:

Hi Marat.

Thanks for pointing to that site. That's REALLY interesting.

My Kerri from www.Easy-Immune-Health.com (she points to a lot of research you might find interesting) deals with Chronic Fatigue/Fibromyalgia a lot, and a commen phrase from them is "I have such high needs for nutrients, taking that supplement won't help".

That's really interesting that fluoride slows cellular energy production and increases nutrient requirements. That makes a LOT of sense...

Thanks! Keep the good finds coming!
May 25, 2016
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starstarstarstarstar 		Sondra and Cipro
by: Sondra

I was given Cipro for a lesion on my calf as insurance against any possible internal infection.

I don't recall the amount, but the prescription was for a one week duration. Five days after the final dose I hung new curtains (light-weight sheers) over two windows so when I began to experience pain in my shoulders on the sixth day I attributed it to stretching too far.

The pain didn't stop at my shoulders, however, and went on to involve elbows, wrists, knees, ankles.

A couple of weeks after finishing the prescription I was filing receipts and found among them the drug sheet given me when the RX was filled and, lo and behold, when I unfolded it what did I find but a black box warning!

I immediately telephoned my doctor who hastened to assure me that no, I wasn't experiencing side effects, that the possibility of damage was so extremely slight as to be impossible, that the black box business was just lip service.

He'a an excellent doctor - he was simply repeating to me what he'd been convinced was true. He prescribed a pain medication which he said was safe and wouldn't damage my (already weakened) kidneys.

Since then the FDA has reversed their stance on that medication and it's now classed as an opioid. It wasn't stopping my pain, anyway, so I weaned myself off it. And a year or so ago when I had a bladder infection he was in the process of writing me a prescription. He asked me if I'd ever taken Cipro and then answered his own question, adding, "No Cipro for you".

Obviously, something changed his mind about that black box warning. What confuses me is that no doctor I've seen offers any healing or even any pain control. I went from my medical to - at my request - a rehabilitation center, to a chiropractor, to a Physical Therapist. I recently began massage. It's been four years and appears to now be chronic tendonitis, shoulders mostly, and given the choice of narcotics or pain I chose pain. Life as I knew it is passing me by.


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Joshua Comments:

Hi Sondra.

I disagree, I think that doctor was in fact a bad doctor. There is a ton of information out there if a doctor would bother to take ten minutes to educate him/herself.

Black label warnings are not just 'lip service'.

"What confuses me is that no doctor I've seen offers any healing or even any pain control."

Normal hospital medicine doesn't have any answers for cipro side effects. Doctors are under the sway of a pharmaceutical paradigm, which means their education and mindset is focused on symptoms and drugs.

There is no drug nor will there ever be that can fix side effects of cipro. It is an impossibility. And doctors tend not to investigate and find out of the box solutions, even if that 'out of the box' solution can be found by looking at how cipro works, and how the body works, and figuring it out.


And while PT and massage can help you feel a little better, cipro causes a systemic issue (that causes specific physical issues) not physical issues, and PT and massage aren't a fix because they don't address the necessary factors of the systemic issue(s).


See Related: My Doctor Said Cipro Didn't Cause Muscle Pain And Weakness And No Long Term Side Effects
May 25, 2016
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starstarstarstarstar 		Almost recovered
by: Marat S.

Hello, I want to let you all know that I am practically recovered. A few days after my initial posting things got really really worse though. I had "Gnc Pro Performance Amp Amplified 100% Whey Protein".

I am not 100% sure what caused it, its just "most likely".

I had to use crutches for couple of months. Severe weakness continued for something like 5 months, until end of May 2010.

Then condition started to improve and at the middle of 2012 I was able to walk anywhere I wanted, expect that if I walk lets say for hour or two, I had to be very easy at the next day.

Ability to run (I didn't run for more then 5 min) returned somewhere in 2013. Ability to squat returned in 2014. Now I still experience discomfort but only in very special cases, like a month ago I needed to lift 80 pound concrete bags and I did fee stiffness and discomfort for a day or two, but after doing it everyday I barely have problems. So, can still don't feel brand new, but things are getting better and better. I am almost there.

I am not sure what to recommend and if all my previous comments have sense regarding the remedy.

I took Instaflex from GNC and Jigsaw Magnesium w/SRT.

When I was talking Instaflex, I took only 1 capsule per 2 weeks. I noticed that I was getting worse for next few days, but after 2 weeks I felt better then before taking the pill. Don't take it as they prescribe. In our condition I think it does a little damage, but during the recovery from the Instaflex effect it also repairs the tendons.
Jun 10, 2017
Rating
starstarstarstarstar 		Cipro
by: Maggie B

I'm devastated reading this , after recent surgery I got infected with a mycobacterium Goodii, my doctor told me I would be on Cipro and doxycycline for 5 months . I love to hike and have a trip booked for September to hike in Italy .

She said cipro was basically my only choice as I have minor allergy to sulpha . I think I'll just shoot myself now !, I'm female 68 years old .


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Joshua Comments:

Hi Maggie.

Well, ya gotta do what you gotta do....

1. I'd get a second opinion and/or do some research to see what other antibiotics are/can be effective vs mycobacterium Goodii.

Maybe the Cipro is the only option, maybe not.

2. Did you have a C&S? (Culture and Sensitivity). If you don't, INSIST (from your doctor or some other doctor) that one is done. (not really possible if it's a brain infection, or tough to get places like [on males obviously] prostate).


3. Better question with the above. Where is the infection/where was the surgery?


4. How sick are you? What's the acuteness of this? Meaning, do you have time to 'play' with treatments, or will bad things happen if you don't get this treated RIGHT now?

Said another way, how close to life and death are you?

If it's not immediate, you have options. If it's immediate...again, you have to do what you have to do.


5. If you do end up (having to) take the Cipro (and if you do, you do. Living is better than dying...in most cases.

In that scenario, you must take magnesium (Cipro depletes magnesium).

But magnesium also counters the effectiveness of Cipro (levaquin, etc). So we can talk about how to do both (get benefit from Cipro and try to prevent negatives.


No need to shoot yourself!

Answer the above questions, as the answers definitely define your options.


*LEGAL NOTE: I am not a doctor I do not give medical advice.

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