Ice Dipping - When?

by Zach
(PA)

With the ice dip procedure for wrist tendonitis, is the dipping supposed to be done once a day, dipping the wrist at least 10 times in a 2 hour span?


Or, is it supposed to be done a few times a day?

I read it to mean I would do it for one 2 hour span once a day for 3-7 days, but I want to make sure this is correct.



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Joshua Answers:

Hi Zach.

Your Wrist Tendonitis icing question highlights the challenge I've been having of getting a vague idea across definitively.

I primarily suggest that people Ice Dip a minimum of 10 dips within a 2 hour time frame.

Your understanding of what I wrote is right on, and the other questions that came up are great questions.

Ten 10 second dips in a two hour period. That is the beginning recipe.

And, it doesn't have to be ten times, or within 2 hours.

(Although within two hours is more effective than one dip every hour throughout the day.)

With pain, injury, and inflammation, it really is The More The Merrier.

10 Dips in 2 hours will make a huge difference to the vast majority of individuals.

And, if you are in a lot of pain, the more you ice dip, the faster it will go away. So if you Ice Dip 40 times in a day, that very likely will have a more beneficial effect on reversing your wrist tendonitis dynamic than just ten times.

And ten times causes incredible results.


See: Pain Causing Dynamic


I recommend the beginning recipe for 7 days to begin stopping and then reversing the Downward Spiral.

Then you will learn what that recipe can do for you and your Tendonitis self-care, and then adjust more or less as necessary.

Also, once the pain is gone, you may find it wise to continue icing for at least another week, to help support your body as it heals and moves in an Upward Spiral.

Does that answer your question(s)?

Keep me updated, and ask any other questions that come up.

Let's get you completely out of pain.



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Joshua Tucker, B.A., C.M.T.
The Tendonitis Expert
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Comments for Ice Dipping - When?

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Oct 29, 2016
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Ice dipping whole body
by: NK

I read the page on reducing inflammation and saw ice dipping for most body parts except shoulders and hips.

Can I do an ice bath but use the dip method. In for 10 seconds out for 5 minutes?


Thanks

Kind regards


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Joshua Comments:

Hi NK.

If you want to spend some time ice dipping the whole body, yeah that's good.

10-20 seconds in, then out.

Hot tub to ice plunge to hot tub to ice plunge, in a perfect world.

Finishing hot showers with cold is good too (and during a shower, going hot cold hot cold hot cold). Especially in winter (depending on where you are) as the water is usually much colder.



Jan 25, 2017
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You know your stuff!
by: Gunnar Drummer

I just want to start out that this method is great!

I've been through chiropractic procedures for wrist pain and tendonitis and the ice dipping completely helps after only 2 days!

My question though is regarding scar tissue. My right hand has been stagnant with pain for 3 years.

My doctor says my carpal bones and thumb has scar tissue surrounding my tendons which causes popping and wrist pain.

Do you have any advice on any home remedies to get rid of this enduring nuisance?


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Joshua Comments:

Good!

That's what Ice Dipping does. It's not a fix per se, but it's very effective at lowering pain levels.

So....you doctor says that your carpal bones have scar tissue around them? And Thumb? And also the tendons on/near those areas?

Or just the tendons?

Like, scar tissue all along the tendons, for multiple inches of the tendon?

If that's what your doctor, I highly doubt it unless he did an MRI and can see it.

Also, scar tissue isn't likely to blame for the 'popping' and wrist pain that I imagine that you're referring to.

For instance, as, your doctor WHY that alleged scar tissue is allegedly 'on your tendons'.

He won't have much of an answer.

The actual answer is that, if you do have tendon pain and wrist pain, that pain is caused, ultimately, by too tight muscle and connective tissue in the forearms that is pulling too hard, constantly, on the tendons, and compressing the wrist joint.


Again, unlikely that you even have scar tissue, and if you do, it's a symptom of something, not the cause of all your symptoms.

I of course suggest my Reversing Wrist Tendonitis program (or Reversing DeQuervain's Tendonitis program if your thumb hurts the most).

To get you back to a pain free state takes some explanation, mostly on what exactly to do to get your forearm/hand back towards optimal function (and thus minimal to no pain/problem).




Feb 22, 2017
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Follow up
by: Gunnar Drummer

Ok. Let me explain a little bit how it happened.

I was playing a concert on drums one time and I played quite tight. Most of my power came from the forearm into the wrist right before the initial hit of the snare drum.

That night I experienced tingling in my wrist and fingers. My thumb felt weaker and unstable, like a fatigued arm after too much weights.

It progressively got worse as my wrist bone area connected to the thumb started getting sharp pain (my left hand is developing something similar but not nearly as painful).

Now when I grip the stick, even the slightest pressure gets the hand tender where my thumb, wrist, and forearm is. The cracking of my hand and wrist is disgusting as heck but it's the only way to find a bit of relief. My chiropractor relieved the pain and popping so I felt it was safe.

No MRI but I took his professional word for it and accepted his advice. For a month, my playing was very clear and felt as if nothing happened. Then it slowly crept back. I even corrected my technique into a very loose style!

But, then I noticed you had a discussion on here about nutrition. I have never ate well. I was sickly as a kid because of poor diet habits and fast food on a daily. Leafy greens were the enemy! It wasn't until about a couple months back that eating bananas and drinking milk became a thing for me.

Do you think there is a way to beat this thing? Drumming is my life and I can't afford medical treatment anymore. I'm not depressed, but it's my dream to be like Buddy Rich!

What can I do? I can't scrounge up a dime. What should I eat? How do I get rid of the popping in both of my hands? Am I screwed?


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Joshua Comments:

Hi Gunnar.

Well, you may be screwed in the sense that you absolutely do need nutrition for your body to work correctly.

You should be able to get out of pain and strong again etc, but...it's going to cost you. Good food, and for a short term at least, supplements.

Having said that:

A. What happens when you ice dip a lot?
B. If you got that relief from the chiropractor, the reason it crept back in was due to muscle tightness.

You can possibly do self massage to keep the benefit you got from the chiro to stay longer.


Feb 23, 2017
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Follow up 2
by: Gunnar Drummer

Could you recommend me a tiny grocery list to supply my body with?

Answers to your questions.

A. It works generally well with the pain for extended periods of time. My thumb doesn't feel flaring. It doesn't, however, stop the pressure of the pain in my thumb that persists in my wrist joint and between the thumb and index finger when I play. Why are those spots popping and generating discomfort??!

B. Yeah, my chiropractor never mentioned nutrition but he mentioned it was kindve tight there. Ever since I started eating bananas my body has relieved some of the stress in both arms.

What supplements should I get? I already have Iron, B12, magnesium, and calcium. Anything else I'm missing?


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Joshua Comments:

1. Is your iron low? If not, don't supplement with iron. Too much is bad. And guys generally don't need to and shouldn't supplement iron

2. Why calcium? We get enough calcium from our food (generally), but can't utilize it because not enough magnesium and vitamin d.

3. If a banana or two noticeably makes things better, that points to you benefiting from potassium. Eat more bananas.

4. "Why are those spots popping and generating discomfort??!"

Because your muscles and connective tissue are too tight, are constantly too tight, are compressing the joint, and are forcing a new/compressed range of joint motion that causes them to move in ways they're not supposed to, and because the joint is getting irritated, and because you have chronic inflammation which makes things hurt.

5. Bananas. Organic grass fed sources of meat, fat, eggs. Avocado. Coconut oil. Organic grassfed sources of raw milk/cream/kefir.

Real sauerkraut (no vinegar). Beet Kavass (easy to make).


Mar 04, 2017
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Drummer practicing each finger daily
by: Gunnar Drummer

Hey! I asked you before about my right hand but now my left is slowly sinking in the same depths. I play drums (my practice pad) quite often around 2-4 hours a day split in two sessions.

My left hand is naturally weaker than my right so I try a teeny bit more to keep my balance at the fulcrum point of the stick where the thumb and index finger rest with minimal pressure.

I feel as though I'm gripping quite light for maximum control with minimal influence but I start to feel some pain on the thumb side of my wrist, my forearm, and the top of my hand just before the wrist. I have quite a poor diet which isn't consistent with vitamins or minerals.


I'm just wondering if you could give me a good idea on what I need to start doing to have healthier tendons to take what the drums demand. What are free ways to tackle my problem?

Thank you!

P.S. I have been practicing my fingers individually every day.


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Joshua Comments:

Hi Gunnar.

Healthy free options:

1. Ice dip as described on the How To Reduce Inflammation

2. Self massage from fingertip to elbow.

3. Stop eating nutritionless and inflammatory foods.



Mar 15, 2017
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Why does my Physical Therapist use heat rather than ice???
by: Lynn G.

Why does my physical therapist use heat rather than ice? I still get swelling from this repetitive use injury.

I am considering getting a parafin machine. Is this good or should I just use ice?


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Joshua Comments:

Hi Lynn.

I don't know.

Physical therapists also use ice packs (a not very effective option, but still better than heat).

Why yours only uses heat, I don't know.

I imagine the conversation goes something like this: "We use heat because we want to bring blood to the area to help it heal."

Unfortunately, there are some problems with that strategy.

A. Is there any actual injury? If not, it doesn't need help 'healing'. Just because there's pain doesn't mean that there's actual injury there.

B. When there is pain and/or injury, there is a Process of Inflammation, and that traps fluid in the area, which makes 'bringing new blood to the area' potentially problematic (swelling, excess fluid trapped in the area causing problems).

C. If there's swelling etc, you want to get that fluid out. COld is effective at that. Heat, not so much.

D. When you remove cold, the body pushes a lot of new blood to the area to warm it up.

So why use heat when you can use cold and STILL get lots of new blood to the area (with the added benefits of cold dialing down the inflammation process which causes the swelling in the first place).


See Related: Wrist Tendonitis And Ice Dipping Long Term Questions

See Related: Years Of Wrist Tendonitis Ice Dipping Really Helps



Mar 16, 2017
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Minimal Break Time?
by: MikeN

Joshua - just started dipping two days now and have no problems thus far for golfer elbow issues. My question for you is there an ideal amount wait/break time in between dips?

I've typically waited about 10 mins or so to warm up and message the elbow tissues for circulation.

Any thoughts on this?

Thanks


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Joshua Comments:

Hi Mike.

The timing doesn't matter so much.

You just need to give enough time for the area to 'warm up', by which I mean, new blood to get pushed back into the area.

There's probably a minimum amount of time (differs per person), but there's no maximum time.

One ice dip, one reflexive circulatory response.

The more the merrier.



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